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stmele
Starting Member

5 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2004 :  15:59:15  Show Profile
We all have to let Line 6 know that we need a new POD with the features of the Vetta II, and we need it soon! The benefits of two amplifiers at once, and the digital interface should be available in a studio modeler.
It's time to discontinue the POD 2.0, lower the price of the XT to a level similar to the 2.0 now, and put out a new unit!!!

bjm007
Giant Member

USA
1564 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2004 :  00:39:28  Show Profile
Yup, this has been discussed at length. There is certainly a demand for a Vetta without the power amp, for sure

www.lespaulforum.org
www.thefenderforum.com/forum/index.php?s=
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conkhi4u
Member-At-Large

132 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2004 :  15:49:58  Show Profile
who knows what line 6 is doing?> I mean their support and communication with its users is pathetic....i mean for gosh sakes communicate with us- we are supporting you!!!! It amazes me how many questions and issues are brought up to them on their boards and they never answer..never respond...and we who spent the $ are left hanging out to dry....I dont expect miracles or any unit to be perfect but what is with developing a new product and letting it fall to the wayside....and moving on to the next thing>? How long will a user take this before they say...screw you..and buy different products?
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gomez1856
Giant Member

1111 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2004 :  16:49:58  Show Profile  Send gomez1856 a Yahoo! Message
quote:
Originally posted by conkhi4u

who knows what line 6 is doing?> I mean their support and communication with its users is pathetic....i mean for gosh sakes communicate with us- we are supporting you!!!! It amazes me how many questions and issues are brought up to them on their boards and they never answer..never respond...and we who spent the $ are left hanging out to dry....I dont expect miracles or any unit to be perfect but what is with developing a new product and letting it fall to the wayside....and moving on to the next thing>? How long will a user take this before they say...screw you..and buy different products?



I'm going to have to disagree with you. I don't think that we, as users, have a right to demand that Line 6 tell us anything about what they are planning to do in the future. The minute they do, people will hold it as gospel and flame them if they choose to change their strategy or position on anything. If you have an issue about a specific product or you're in need of Technical support, the forums are the wrong place to make them known. Log a ticket in the FAQTRAQ or call support. I've received excellent support from them on all of my issues (except one, which was addressed with a software release anyways).

I hear so many people flame about why they won't tell us if this is coming out or if this is going to be in the next version. I think that they have gone above and beyond their duties as a company to even monitor these posts and chime in occasionally with some feedback. I work for a very sucessfull software company and I know that the development scope on new releases can change at the drop of a hat.

I think that Line 6 has given us some of the most amazing and innovative gear that has ever been made available in the music industry, yet some just keep finding things that "Suck."

Just my take and, conkhi4u, this is not meant to be an attack at you, I just disagree with your take on the posted topic.

Rick
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titus
Large Member

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2004 :  19:33:38  Show Profile  Send titus an AOL message
I have to say I agree with Gomez. Computers change on an almost month to month basis, if you keep waiting for the latest model you will never buy one...

"To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure...." Titus 1:15
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bjm007
Giant Member

USA
1564 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2004 :  21:05:03  Show Profile
Ditto...........

www.lespaulforum.org
www.thefenderforum.com/forum/index.php?s=
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stmele
Starting Member

5 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2004 :  17:16:14  Show Profile
I think that someone at Line 6 reads these boards, and what we think may matter somewhat. I want a better POD, with Vetta features, plus plus, and I suspect that they have it already, but are just waiting for the right time to market it.
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javajunkie
Member with too much time available

USA
3945 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2004 :  05:19:20  Show Profile  Visit javajunkie's Homepage
Vox isn't any different. The didn't inform anyone about the SE, it just slipped out the rumour, just like Line 6 product do. I've been trying to get in contact w/ Vox/Korg for a while via email. No response!

It states clearly on the boards website that the forum is for USERS to share ideas, thoughts and that any questions regarding technical support should be directed to the FAQTRAQ where you can submit a question. An automated response will then be generated and w/in 2-3 business days they will reply. Often times if it is about a future product they will not be able to answer, but they respond. Yes, communication is bad w/ users but better than a lot of companies. Speaking of being left on the wayside, what about the tonelab and the tonelab se? Let see if they give an upgrade to to tonelab users for the extra effects, but you know the will put it out on the next version of the tonelab. They've had about 5 updates to the PodXT in the past, not even 2 years it's been out. How's that being left by the way side?


quote:
Originally posted by conkhi4u

who knows what line 6 is doing?> I mean their support and communication with its users is pathetic....i mean for gosh sakes communicate with us- we are supporting you!!!! It amazes me how many questions and issues are brought up to them on their boards and they never answer..never respond...and we who spent the $ are left hanging out to dry....I dont expect miracles or any unit to be perfect but what is with developing a new product and letting it fall to the wayside....and moving on to the next thing>? How long will a user take this before they say...screw you..and buy different products?




I AM THE GREAT ICONOCLAST!
Alright you can call me "Noodle Noggin".

"What do you want to do tonight Brain?"
"Same thing we do every night, Pinky... Try to take over the world!"

Yeeesss!
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gomez1856
Giant Member

1111 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2004 :  10:19:52  Show Profile  Send gomez1856 a Yahoo! Message
quote:
Originally posted by stmele

I think that someone at Line 6 reads these boards, and what we think may matter somewhat. I want a better POD, with Vetta features, plus plus, and I suspect that they have it already, but are just waiting for the right time to market it.



I can respect the fact that you want your feedback heard, but do really believe that flaming them in a public forum is going to accomplish this? Why not start a thread about the items you want to see rather insinuate that you will say "Screw You" and buy a different product if your demands are not met?

and... rest assured, they do read these boards.

Rick
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conkhi4u
Member-At-Large

132 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2004 :  11:04:21  Show Profile
Hi...i am not infering that vox is any better ...most of these companies are all alike in these respects..they just get too large to be personable. I am not expecting the tonelab se to be the end all be all....no way...and i dont hate line6 or the podxt...I had the tonelab to a/b for 4 weeks at my studio and to me i liked the amps better but not the effects...so what? Thats just my opinion.I still like the pod xt in certain ways but something just isnt making me smile about it...i cant really name what it is.I like my cybertwin alot and quite a few people flame me all the time for this...who cares? Not I...no way....I dont play metal so the heavy sounds arent important to me..i feel my fav pod xt amp is the zen amp...and the fenders...we are all searching for tools to help us in out music and tone in guitar is very subjective.Same with guitars..my friend only owns warrior/prs/and some other guys name guitars..they are very expensive like 3000+ dollars apiece...i play them and dont like them like he does.. sure they have pretty woods and nice hardware ect ect but thats not important to me..but he loves them and thats all that matters...(of course i dont tell him they suk cause they dont and that would be very rude)
My point is that yes alot of companies are the same and the support is poor to nonexistant so i am not flaming line 6 on that anymore..i am sorry if i came off that way..i should have thought harder before i posted.

I Do like the interface of the xt-reminds me of my vg8 and vg88 ..
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javajunkie
Member with too much time available

USA
3945 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2004 :  11:13:05  Show Profile  Visit javajunkie's Homepage
I agree. I also think line 6 is too tight lipped and not clear enough that their forum isn't for customer support. They should post a sticky in all the forums stating so. I think they have good support, but like you said their communication sucks. I also think they need to look a quailty control, the pod xt and pods have been good, but some of their other products have had problems that should have been caught.

quote:
Originally posted by conkhi4u

Hi...i am not infering that vox is any better ...most of these companies are all alike in these respects..they just get too large to be personable. I am not expecting the tonelab se to be the end all be all....no way...and i dont hate line6 or the podxt...I had the tonelab to a/b for 4 weeks at my studio and to me i liked the amps better but not the effects...so what? Thats just my opinion.I still like the pod xt in certain ways but something just isnt making me smile about it...i cant really name what it is.I like my cybertwin alot and quite a few people flame me all the time for this...who cares? Not I...no way....I dont play metal so the heavy sounds arent important to me..i feel my fav pod xt amp is the zen amp...and the fenders...we are all searching for tools to help us in out music and tone in guitar is very subjective.Same with guitars..my friend only owns warrior/prs/and some other guys name guitars..they are very expensive like 3000+ dollars apiece...i play them and dont like them like he does.. sure they have pretty woods and nice hardware ect ect but thats not important to me..but he loves them and thats all that matters...(of course i dont tell him they suk cause they dont and that would be very rude)
My point is that yes alot of companies are the same and the support is poor to nonexistant so i am not flaming line 6 on that anymore..i am sorry if i came off that way..i should have thought harder before i posted.

I Do like the interface of the xt-reminds me of my vg8 and vg88 ..



I AM THE GREAT ICONOCLAST!
Alright you can call me "Noodle Noggin".

"What do you want to do tonight Brain?"
"Same thing we do every night, Pinky... Try to take over the world!"

Yeeesss!
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AdInfinitum
New Member

93 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2004 :  13:20:30  Show Profile
FYI - As far as Korg/VOX and the Tonelab SE, the ToneLab and SE versions were both listed on their web site at the same time (soon after summer NAMM). They didn't make one and then sneak the other one out (which is what Line6 has a habit of doing).
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javajunkie
Member with too much time available

USA
3945 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2004 :  13:40:36  Show Profile  Visit javajunkie's Homepage
Yes, but there was no feature set until recently. But your right, line 6 does have a tendency to just jump out w/ new product that would influence a person buying decisions. Like I said, they can be too tight lipped sometimes.


quote:
Originally posted by AdInfinitum

FYI - As far as Korg/VOX and the Tonelab SE, the ToneLab and SE versions were both listed on their web site at the same time (soon after summer NAMM). They didn't make one and then sneak the other one out (which is what Line6 has a habit of doing).




I AM THE GREAT ICONOCLAST!
Alright you can call me "Noodle Noggin".

"What do you want to do tonight Brain?"
"Same thing we do every night, Pinky... Try to take over the world!"

Yeeesss!

Edited by - javajunkie on 01/29/2004 13:46:54
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Swampash
Member-At-Large

USA
340 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2004 :  15:18:12  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by javajunkie

Yes, but there was no feature set until recently. But your right, line 6 does have a tendency to just jump out w/ new product that would influence a person buying decisions. Like I said, they can be too tight lipped sometimes.


quote:
Originally posted by AdInfinitum

FYI - As far as Korg/VOX and the Tonelab SE, the ToneLab and SE versions were both listed on their web site at the same time (soon after summer NAMM). They didn't make one and then sneak the other one out (which is what Line6 has a habit of doing).




I AM THE GREAT ICONOCLAST!
Alright you can call me "Noodle Noggin".

"What do you want to do tonight Brain?"
"Same thing we do every night, Pinky... Try to take over the world!"

Yeeesss!

I believe that one of the problems with our perspective on this is that we think that we are Line 6's direct customers....we are not. The Sam Ash, MF, GC, and other stores are.

Let me be more clear - If I owned a music store, I wouldn't want Line 6 blabbing about a new (or pending) product, because the sales for my current inventory would slip, or just stop altogether...word spreads very quickly over the internet these days. If I had the power of one of the dealers mentioned above, I'd threaten Line 6 with the power of my checkbook - remember here, that GC & MF are the same people, and I'd bet that they represent a VERY significant portion of Line 6's annual US sales volume.

That means that they have, at any given point in time, a significant (as in major $$ investment) amount of investment/inventory. If that were mine, I'd not like to see the value of my investment diminish before I had an opportunity to move it out at the best profit level I could...can I hear a DUH?

Furthermore, when Line 6 previews new feature sets - either for upgrades or new products - they are just helping their competition to make sure that their new products will match or beat Line 6's, feature for feature. Frankly, I'm suprised that Line 6 previewed the Variax "acoustic" with only 5 prototypes built....maybe it's so different from (or advanced beyond) anyone else's technology, that they feel they can get away with it, just to create demand and orders once they finally are ready to ship.

I feel more like I do now, than I did when I first got here...
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javajunkie
Member with too much time available

USA
3945 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2004 :  05:22:44  Show Profile  Visit javajunkie's Homepage
That's funny because MF is the worst at slipping up w/ the releasing the product info before line 6 is ready to announce it. They did it for the Vetta II, putting out a review on the Variax that spoke about Vetta II connectivity before anyone knew about it and w/ the HD147 and Variax 700. The bottom Line is we are their customers! Do we call MF for support unless it's to return it. Would MF keep them in stock if we did not by them. When I buy a product from say, Walmart, I am a customer of Walmart and of the product I buy. When line 6 decides not to go to NAMM so they can use the resources for marketing to the consumer, that tells me we are indeed the customer. The ads Line 6, not Sam Ash, MF, or GC, put out in consumer magazines, not trade magazines, tells me we are indeed customers. While your point about clearing stock is very valid, I still think they can be too tight lipped and this causes communication problem between them and their customers (us). This is especially true of bugs. Case and point, clicks and pops in the XT upgrade before last; there were clicks and pops when changing patches and when turning some effects on/off. Many users didn't notice or experience this, but quite a few, like myself, did. After GVW said he could not recreate the problem he asked one of us to give him examples, our patches, and a description of exactly where the problems occured. I did just that. No, thanks for sending that in, we're looking into it. No the problem has been identified and we are working on a solution. No acknowledgement of the problem after repeated inquries. Then low and behold, one day a couple months later, an update is released fixing the problem. All the while, several people were fuming about line 6 not acknowledging the problem. I was/ am appreciative of the fix, but this is what I mean by too tight lipped. They cause themselves undo hardship, by not acknowledging issues and address concerns once this issue is understood. Half the time all they need to do is say, we are working on a solution. That being said, they have got better at this over the past few months.


quote:
Originally posted by Swampash

quote:
Originally posted by javajunkie

Yes, but there was no feature set until recently. But your right, line 6 does have a tendency to just jump out w/ new product that would influence a person buying decisions. Like I said, they can be too tight lipped sometimes.


quote:
Originally posted by AdInfinitum

FYI - As far as Korg/VOX and the Tonelab SE, the ToneLab and SE versions were both listed on their web site at the same time (soon after summer NAMM). They didn't make one and then sneak the other one out (which is what Line6 has a habit of doing).




I AM THE GREAT ICONOCLAST!
Alright you can call me "Noodle Noggin".

"What do you want to do tonight Brain?"
"Same thing we do every night, Pinky... Try to take over the world!"

Yeeesss!

I believe that one of the problems with our perspective on this is that we think that we are Line 6's direct customers....we are not. The Sam Ash, MF, GC, and other stores are.

Let me be more clear - If I owned a music store, I wouldn't want Line 6 blabbing about a new (or pending) product, because the sales for my current inventory would slip, or just stop altogether...word spreads very quickly over the internet these days. If I had the power of one of the dealers mentioned above, I'd threaten Line 6 with the power of my checkbook - remember here, that GC & MF are the same people, and I'd bet that they represent a VERY significant portion of Line 6's annual US sales volume.

That means that they have, at any given point in time, a significant (as in major $$ investment) amount of investment/inventory. If that were mine, I'd not like to see the value of my investment diminish before I had an opportunity to move it out at the best profit level I could...can I hear a DUH?

Furthermore, when Line 6 previews new feature sets - either for upgrades or new products - they are just helping their competition to make sure that their new products will match or beat Line 6's, feature for feature. Frankly, I'm suprised that Line 6 previewed the Variax "acoustic" with only 5 prototypes built....maybe it's so different from (or advanced beyond) anyone else's technology, that they feel they can get away with it, just to create demand and orders once they finally are ready to ship.

I feel more like I do now, than I did when I first got here...



I AM THE GREAT ICONOCLAST!
Alright you can call me "Noodle Noggin".

"What do you want to do tonight Brain?"
"Same thing we do every night, Pinky... Try to take over the world!"

Yeeesss!
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Swampash
Member-At-Large

USA
340 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2004 :  09:05:33  Show Profile
Hi Java,

I didn't say that we weren't their customer, I said:
quote:
that we think that we are Line 6's direct customers....we are not
We are indeed their customers; and compared to many in the music business, they do very well.

I don't really disagree with you about Line 6's need to be more forthcoming about some issues....I just think that we live in an "automatic age", where we can push a button and instantly obtain a desired result (Vetta), and we tend to try to apply the same expectations to humans. When they have acknowleged problems (mostly with software, IIRC), they are constantly berated until they provide a solution...as though they had intended to screw-up in the 1st place and were just waiting for someone to find the problem so that they could fix it.

I believe that, due to the nature of message boards like this one (which is fantastic....thanks again Andy), a problem can become exagerated causing a greater level of fear among potential buyers. As a company, Line 6 has been walking carefully to avoid flaming the fires of expectations, and the ignorant. Or maybe, as the old addage says: "better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

I think that this has to do with many things, here's just a few examples:

NTDH or Neurotic Topic Headline Disorder
Some people seem to feel the need for their opinion to be read by everyone, so they use a "headline" like this from the Variax Board: "Variax Acoustic: MAJOR PROBLEM", to get everyone's attention. This guy was reoriented towards reality; but for new users - when combined with topics that raise legitimate concerns and problems - this can create unnecessary anxiety about a product...the FUD factor - Fear-Uncertainty-[and]-Doubt.

DIYDx2 - Damned If You Do-Damned If You Don't
The topic above has an example of this also: many people ask for alternate tunings, so Line 6 gives it to them....then people who have never even seen anything except a picture complain about the implementation.

Or, users want more amp models, effects, etc., and Line 6 comes through. OK, now the darned amp is too complicated for the average user.

I hear your concerns...heck, Line 6 probably does too...I just think there are more issues than we recognize, and their paychecks depend on not creating more problems than they solve.



I feel more like I do now, than I did when I first got here...
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